Where's the Line?
I know that there are some legislative measures coming up that would make the porn industry regulate their product by forcing the participants to wear condoms. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Before you jump to conclusions, hear me out.
I'm a Constitutional Conservative. I believe in fiscal responsibility, personal responsibility, and limited government. I believe, much like the founders, that government at it best is a necessary evil, and at its worst is pure evil. I believe that we are all accountable to God and should exercise personal responsibility. That being said, we still need laws to draw the line in certain cases in order to protect us, but I don't believe that the government should infringe upon our freedoms.
Many of you know me. You know that I used to be a porn addict. I hate porn and the industry with all that I have in me. I wish the industry were dead. However, I think that censorship and forced mandates are a form of tyranny. The first amendment gives us the freedom of expression, and if someone wants to express themselves by having unprotected sex on camera, I think they have that right. I completely disagree with them, and their moral compass, but I believe that our freedoms shouldn't be infringed upon by the Federal Government. The infringement that would force porn actors to wear condoms is the same infringment that would tell people like Shelley that she can't talk about her past. The Freedom of expression and the Freedom of Speech are both outlined as rights that the government cannot infringe upon according to the 1st Amendment.
I think this borders the same boundaries as the current healthcare bill. Eventually, when the government completely takes over the industry, the government is going to start forcing ordinary people to do things like wearing condoms and getting tested. And while I don't disagree with those ideas in principle, I don't believe it's the governments job to force people to do things like that. Where do you draw the line?
I do think there should be some state regulations that are put in place that don't infringe about the rights expressed by the 1st Amendment, though. I think it would be a good idea for porn actors and actresses to be 21 before being legally allowed to participate in porn. I also think that porn viewers should be 21 as well. However, these rules should be implemented by the individual states as opposed to being forced down by the feds.
What do you think? Again, I completely disagree with the industry and wished it didn't exist, but as a constitutionalist, I think it's dangerous to silence or censor people like that. America is all about freedom. If you choose to be in a porn movie and you get an STD, that's YOUR fault. I don't want to sound insensitive, but that's the truth of the matter. My heart broke when I read about Lara Roxx and how she got HIV right after her first scene. That's a tragedy. But, she made the choice to move here with the sole intention of making porn movies. I'm not saying she got what she deserved. I'm not saying that at all. But the consequences she has to deal with are the direct result of her decisions. When you make a mistake, you don't get to choose the consequences. Again, it's called personal responsibility, and it's not the government's job to regulate things like this. It's a slippery slope.
Comments
Long thread.
I will keep this simple.
I want people to not die.
I want them to feel loved and cared about.
God made them and they matter.
I want them to come to Christ - but I am willing to love them and miss them and hurt when they die, even if the don't come to christ.
This is what I spend my time trying to do, on a small scale.
I don't succede all the time.
The love verses aply here.
Hey, there, Gina;
I'm just wondering if you wouldn't mind me moving your comments to the apologetics section of this board (not delete your post...just start a new topic)?
I would love to respond to your comments, but I don't want to deviate from this thread with a discussion about universal salvation, so would it be okay?
If not, I completely undersand.
Oh, and Chadwick...thanks so much for your kind comments. They mean a lot coming from you. :)
Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
I don't mind at all, Beloved. I won't be engaging in any debates, however. If anyone is truly interested in this topic, there are links on my profile page where they can find all the information I have at my disposal. I just really appreciate what Shelley and Garrett and all you are doing and I'm here to support that.
Thanks for understanding.
Hi, Gina;
Good, because I don't care for debates myself, either.
Thank you for the kind words.
Precious -- if you are still interested in discussing this topic, perhaps you can post a new thread in the apologetics forum?
Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
I am having a problem with my posts being queued for some reason. I tried to respond to your post at the questions section, and two separate posts would not go thru, sigh. Ughh. Will see if this one does!!
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
So we can keep this topic on track, and be able to discuss her points about universal salvation in more depth. We may not be able to agree, but it is the work of the Holy Spirit to help us see what God wants us to see, and to be able to come to agreement as one body of Christ. :)
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
well, let's start with that condoms are certainly not fail-safe.
they aren't 100% under the BEST CONDITIONS (they break, split, fall off etc etc)
(and that's used under the "best conditions")
now let's throw in "gonzo" porn (which is the most "popular porn style" today and well, that condom is likely useless...that's for starters....
The next thing is, who is going to be policing this? Do you know how much porn is made daily? If you count the "movies" and the "internet performances" and the "live sex shows" and on and on....? Do you think someone will be there to make sure Mr so and so's condom is applied correctly with non oxynol 9??? Then realistically think about the porn that's out there with many partners etc etc.
I applaud anything they do to shut porn down, but I don't think this will affect much change if any.
also, the market for watching "ejaculations" (trying to word that so it's "ok" here) is HUGE. Big demand for seeing that. Do you think that part of the industry will just "go away?" really?
and then when the porn industry moves to Nevada (home of legal brothels) or another state that will gladly take the income/by product of the industry...?? Then what....
I guess my opinion is with the way the industry is/has been run, and the 1st amendment, balanced with that California already contradicts itself by allowing porn but banning prostitution (when it's the same thing=sex for money) I don't see it being enforced is all....
You didn't answer the question.
We can all agree the porn industry's not about to dissolve, right?
So would you prefer that they wore condoms, or would you prefer that they didn't?
as a Christian I won't condone anything related to porn-I am opposed to any sex outside of marriage; so I have no preference; I have no dog in that fight. as their sister in Christ I say what Christ said "go forth and sin no more, I can give them a job as a secretary or help them find work of a Godly kind" (which is what Shelley is trying to do, provide the means to live the better life which God calls all of us to)
I just don't think it's an enforceable law (even if it does pass) that's just going along with the original posters question on opinions of "government regulations"
Really? You don't have a dog in the fight?
Reducing the death rate among these people doesn't mean anything to you? So whether 100 people die of HIV, or 50 or 20... who cares?
By the way, as far as being enforceable... porn videos carry the titles of the production companies and distributors just like anything else.
Porn video is released..."Hey, that guy's not wearing a condom!"
They're fined. If it continues, they'll be shut down.
If they leave to another state, The Pink Cross will fight them there. Though, on one of the audio files, Shelley makes an interesting point that they won't leave CA because of its proximity to Hollywood. Makes sense - that's the lie these women buy into, that they're going to be big movie stars... and it's also probably the best place for them to find new performers from all the women that migrate there for that purpose... being movie stars.
it would be Cal-Osha that put the 'condom law' into play. If they did manage to police it, the 'industry' would simply slither over to Vegas (where prostitution is legal in a majority of Nevada anyhow--they'd welcome the income-they'd tax the whoozits out of it just like they do the brothels)
The whole and sole purpose of becoming a Christian is "to conform to the image of Christ", right?
For those who support the "condom in porn issue", please show us where Jesus and His disciples said, "Please stop sinning but if you don't want to, here's some condoms so you can be safe and not get any diseases or die from it."
The truth is- Jesus would never do what Shelley and Pink Cross are doing as ones who say they are followers of Him. Jesus would NEVER go to the porn industry and tell them to "be safe".
Think of all the men and women who will now get into porn because of lack of fear of diseases, etc. The condom issue is only HELPING people stay away or turn from God. God CAN'T bless anyone or any ministry that does opposite of what He did and says to do.
"All adulterers, fornicators... will inherit the lake of fire." Our only God-appointed and God-approved job as Christians is to "rescue the perishing". People in porn who wear condoms are still perishing and condoms will not save any lives from the final destination of hell. In fact, it will help put them there. Pink Cross will be cursed because of their misrepresentation of God. I am now removing myself from any connection with this ministry and will not send one more person here for "help". Please consider the Lord's words in this matter so you can live blessed lives. "If you partake with an adulterer... I will reprove you and set things right before My eyes", says the Lord. Ps. 50: 18 & 21
Hey, Bob
"All adulterers, fornicators... will inherit the lake of fire."
I know you mean well, but look at the scripture and see what it actually says:
Revelation 21:8 (King James Version)
But the FEARFUL, and UNBELIEVING, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all LIARS, shall have their *part* in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
That scripture doesn't say they'll *inherit* the lake of fire, it says they'll have their *part* in it. And it isn't just the adulters; did you notice that the "fearful" and "liars" will also have their part in this Lake of Fire?
Ever tell a lie, Bob? Ever been fearful? Ever made anyone fearful?
If you're truly worried that any would have their *part* in the Lake of Fire, then don't cause people to become fearful by saying that Jesus would never support this ministry all because it is helping to enforce a law that is already on the books. See, I could say that you are helping people to have their part in the lake of fire because you're instilling fear in the hearts and minds of those who are working to help these girls by saying that if they condone condom use that God won't bless their ministry.
God knows Shelley's heart. There are many praying for this ministry and these girls.
Matt. 21:31 .... Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead [not instead] of you [pharisees/super-religious]."
As for the Lake of Fire and what it is; well, it's no walk in the park, that's for sure, but we can't assume that having a "part" in it means they never come out of it.
Read the story below regarding Malachi 3:3 And He [God] shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
The Refiners Touch
There was a group of women in a Bible study on the book of Malachi. As they were studying chapter three they came across verse three which says, "He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver." This verse puzzled the women and they wondered what this statement meant about the character and nature of God.
One of the women offered to find out about the process of refining silver and get back to the group at their next Bible study. That week the woman called up a silversmith and made an appointment to watch him at work. She didn't mention anything about the reason for her interest in silver beyond her curiosity about the process of refining silver. As she watched the silversmith, he held a piece of silver over the fire and let it heat up. He explained that, in refining silver, one needed to hold the silver in the middle of the fire where the flames were hottest so as to burn away all the impurities.
Silver smith putting heat to a silver bowl
The woman thought about God holding us in such a hot spot - then she thought again about the verse, that He sits as a refiner and purifier of silver. She asked the silversmith if it was true that he had to sit there in front of the fire the whole time the silver was being refined. The man answered that yes, he not only had to sit there holding the silver, but he had to keep his eyes on the silver the entire time it was in the fire. For if the silver was left even a moment too long in the flames, it would be destroyed.
The woman was silent for a moment. Then she asked the silversmith, "How do you know when the silver is fully refined?" He smiled at her and answered, "Oh, that's the easy part -- when I see my image reflected in it."
If today you are feeling the heat of the fire, remember that God has His eye on you and will keep His hand on you and watch over you until He sees His image in you.
AUTHOR UNKNOWN
___________________________
God's Lake of Fire is a spiritual fire, not literal -- and it is for purging, and purifying hearts and minds. And it's no walk in the park.
Psalm 98:9: A tribute to God when he comes, When he comes to set the earth right. He'll straighten out the WHOLE world, He'll put the world right, and EVERYONE in it.
God Bless
Gina
Are you saying you believe that all people in the world will eventually be saved and be able to enter heaven?
"He'll straighten out the whole world, He'll put the world right, and everyone in it."
So you are saying you think that if people go thru the so called Great Tribulations and still won't repent, will go thru the Lake of Fire, to be refined and purified, until they finally are purified (repent) and then will be able to get into heaven? Everyone?
Tonya
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
Dear Tonya:
Yes, I believe God will save all -- "is anything too hard for God?" (It's to big a subject for my reply. I hope you understand.)
Regarding the so called "Great Tribulation" (I like the way you phrased that) -- you're right--we won't find that term anywhere in the bible. However, we will find this regarding Christ's disciples:
Acts 14:22: Confirming the souls of the disciples [not talking about the unbelieving, etc.], and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we [Christ's disciples/believers] must through **much** tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Christ's disciples MUST through much tribulation (persecution, trials, etc.,) enter into the kingdom of God; not fun.
As for the Lake of Fire -- everyone will be salted with fire.
Mark 9:49 For everyone shall be salted with fire.
The Lake of Fire is for the fearful, and unbelievers, and idolators, etc. (again, too big a subject for a reply). I just can't believe that God who is love and all knowing -- doesn't know how to turn even the most wicked person around to repent and feel great and deep regret and sorrow and disgust and shame for his/her actions (and therefore He has no other choice but to torture them for ever and ever without end? Really?). I hope that doesn't offend anyone.
I hope that helps a little. Not too many people are interested in hearing how God will save all. It offends some people. Not sure why. But I'm definitely not here to try to offend anyone or shove my beliefs down anyone's throat. If it appears that way, please forgive me. I'm not a polished speaker -- I'm well aware of this.
Love to you.
Gina
Hey, Johnny;
First of all, the Pink Cross did not initiate the whole movement to regulate condom use in the porn industry. The L.A. County Department of Health did, and they came to the Pink Cross because they were trying to make a case against the porn industry, due to the whole AIDS pandemic that happened last year. We offered up factual information and several ex-performers testified.
This was a positive thing -- not only did it raise awareness to the truth behind pornography, but it was a crippling blow to the industry, wich is fervently opposed to condom use. Look beyond the horizon and you will see that it is not about condom use, and it is not about "promoting sin," but about exposing the industry and raising awareness about the Pink Cross.
Anyone who is familiar with the Pink Cross knows that we are primarily about getting people out of porn, and sharing the love of Christ with them. That is our modus operandi. The whole condom issue is not our primary concern, but it does show the performers that we care about their physical well-being, even if they are making porn. Of course, it is their spiritual well-being that we are most concerned about, which is why we reach out to them at porn conventions and break our backs trying to get them to leave!!!!!!
I don't really agree with the argument that it will encourage people to get into porn, because there are still a million reasons why people should not get into porn. I also disagree with the argument that it will interfere with their "free speech" rights. Pornography is a multi-billion dollar business, and like any business, they should be subject to regulations. If a business intentionally violates those regulations, then they are subject to a fine. Why should the multi-billion dollar porn buiness be excluded, or immunized from the law?
Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
Beloved_Branch is right on... and I second and third her here.
The porn industry has been given a pass by everyone when it comes to the regulation and safety of those involved... and the result has been the death of many people and the scarring of lives at several levels... not to mention the toll that it has taken on our culture and our world. Throwing down the 'Free Speech' card at the Federal Level... fine. But if the state of California wants to take a stand at the state level and demand changes be made on this cancer of an industry in their economy... God bless them... and those of us in other places of the country need to be congratulating CalOSHA for taking such a stand.
And one more time... Beloved_Branch is a rock-star on this one and we should all take notes.
Chadwick
Pink Cross Moderator
"Blessed are those who persevere under trial, because when they have stood the test, they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him."
James 1:12
You are right. Other industries and businesses have to abide by and have regulations- why should porn be given "free rein"? It already is part of the major problem of our society. If this puts a "pebble in their shoe" then that is a good thing. It really is time for ones who "have the answer of Jesus" to let Him be known to this lost and hell-bound world. If Christians are participating in the same sins, then there is no hope to be offered them because there is no hope for ourselves.
Throw the porn away. Live life as God intended. Be a part of the solution, not the problem. Jesus is coming at some point or death will come at some point too because 10 out of 10 people die, with or without a condom on. Hell is real but so is heaven and Jesus made it possible to know the fullness of God while on this soil. So what are we waiting for?
Amen, brother.
I know I said I was done here, and I am as far as the arguement goes, but I do want to add
A)Great post, Beloved.
B)I just watched Shelley's testimony in front of Cal/OSHA for the first time - I was really moved by what she said. If God isn't working salvation in Shelley Lubben, I don't know what hope there could be for the rest of us.
If someone helps me lie or steal or commit adultery or fornication, then they are just as guilty as I am for doing wrong.
Encouraging and promoting condom use so that people can continue to sin against the Lord is to be just as guilty as the ones doing it.
Jesus didn't say, "Hey, just in case you decide to keep sinning, here's some condoms so you won't get or give anyone any diseases. Have fun and be safe."
He's about saving souls for His kingdom, not helping men and women stay in their sins. Promoting condoms in porn allows people to stay in their sins.
As a Christian, if you help me stay in my sins, then you don't really love me even though you say you do. Please argue with God about this, not me.
Bob, this will be my last comment to you.
Let's not forget the inescapable fact that men and women ARE exiting the porn industry because of the work that Shelley's doing. And many more are desiring to come out of it. Let's not ever forget.
Who can deny that ensuring people "suit up" so to speak, who are going to have sex anyway because they are either (1) addicted to sex / industry, or (2) they are trapped by it, will get them thinking about the fact that what they're doing has serious consequences? No, wearing a condom isn't going to save them from all those diseases. But it will get them thinking, Bob.
And if you can show me where Shelley or anyone involved in her ministry ever said to those involved in porn "Have fun" and "let me help you continue in your sins, here's a condom," I'll give you $100.
I will now hold my breath................................................
_________________________________________
God Bless everyone who is desiring to come out of the porn industry. God knows your heart and He hears your prayers.
You all have very valid and convincing arguments, but my question still remains: is it the government's place to step in and force these people to do that. EVERYONE who enters the porn industry knows the risk involved, risk to the physical and mental health, yet people still do it. Despite the risk, they continue to work in the industry.
A good defense attorney could argue that forcing people to wear condoms to appear in porn violates their freedom of expression. Here's another scenario: there are a number of couples who have porn sites which feature them being intimate on camera. Would the government then step in and demand that a husband and a wife who only have sex with each other wear condoms? Technically it's porn, and being that they run a porn website and/or sell DVDs, they should adhere to the standards that other porn studios adhere to. Where do you draw the line?
I believe it's a good idea in theory, but again, it's a slippery slope. I think it's up to the actors and such to make their own decisions. If they choose to have unprotected sex, they know the risk involved. It's hard to be overly compassionate when someone willingly and knowingly puts themselves in harm's way.
Johnny, you said: "EVERYONE who enters the porn industry knows the risk involved, risk to the physical and mental health...."
Do they, Johnny? And you know everyone who has ever worked in the porn industry? I don't doubt some or most have a bit of a clue, but from the things I've read and seen, they're lied to about the risks.
I don't buy the slippery slope argument either. Cal-OSHA hasn't enforced the law all these years. There's a reason for it, like, maybe, just maybe, there are people in positions of power, who knows where, who'd be extremely annoyed by a glaring reminder (the condom) that the performers are engaging in extremely risky and unhealthy acts and might catch a deadly disease, or may have already caught a deadly disease. But when I imagine the viewers' experience upon seeing the reminder, however, and I can't say for sure, I get this mental picture of them becoming white as a sheet. I just don't think it would be near the thrill. Sales might even slump. (Pun intended. ;-) ) Oh, well.
Right behind you, Icky.
Johnny,
I just think you're bordering on a much bigger political discussion that may be a good idea on this board.
I don't really buy into slippery-slope arguements. Because they could be used in any circumstance. What? The government tells us to wear our seatbelt? What's next, we'll all be forced to listen to Mein Kampf on our car stereos?
Every society imposes limits, and no one's going to force a man and wife to wear condoms.
The political landscape is changing and our freedoms are being taken away on a daily basis. My biggest concern is that people who are involved in porn understand the health risks. If they choose to have unprotected sex, then they'll have to suffer the consequences of said choice.
Going from making us wear seatbelts to making us read Mein Kampf is a HUGE step. Our freedoms are taken away gradually. Let's take healthcare for example. This new healthcare bill is going to FORCE Americans to have "government approved" health insurance, whether we want it or not. It's also going to force healthcare companies to cover the uninsured. This is unsustainable. Eventually the healthcare companies will go out of business leaving the government as the sole provider, a single-payer system. When the government forces you to have their healthcare and they're the sole provider, eventually they will start making decisions for you. It's not a stretch to think that they're going to limit and regulate the kinds of things you can eat. After all, fast food is bad, and since they're paying for your health insurance, they think they should have a say in what you eat. Eventually they're try and tell people they can't smoke, and all hell will break loose. This type of mentality is what led to Prohibition.
I know this isn't a political forum and whatnot, but I think this discussion is relative. I just don't feel comfortable giving the government THAT much power. It's too big and powerful as it is. Again, it's a slippery slope, and in this situation I think it's completely applicable.
Politics aside, I don't believe that requiring the porn industry to compy with the same standards that other business has to abide by regarding bodily fluids is a slippery slope. The law applies to all businesses operating in California.
For some reason the porn industry has been ignoring the law, and thanks to Shelley and the Pink Cross team, maybe they will be forced to obey it.
Nobody is banning porn or banning people making it. Just requiring that they were condoms to protect the other performers and themselves from the AIDS virus. It is a public health issue which the government has a legitimate interest in.
Carolemarie
Moderator
Pink Cross Team Member
Well said, carolemarie.
I'm ducking out of this topic.
From one of WAB's earlier posts:
"Think of all the men and women who will now get into porn because of lack of fear of diseases, etc. The condom issue is only HELPING people stay away or turn from God. God CAN'T bless anyone or any ministry that does opposite of what He did and says to do. "
So, in other words...
Porn should be MORE dangerous - because if it's more dangerous, more people will suffer and die... and if more people suffer and die, more people will want to leave. In fact, let's think of ways where we can make sure MORE people are hurt while we're at it. That way, we can get our self-righteousness fix.
...such backward thinking.
whataboutBob,
You pretty much just wrote the exact same thing twice.
So where do you stand? Obviously, the porn industry's not going to stop, so...
Should they take the condoms off?
All people- saved or unsaved- have choice to sin or choose God and His ways but here's the clincher...........Christians are not to help people stay in their sins. They are to get out of sin themselves and help people get out of sin. Christians passing out condoms is NOT the Lord's answer to this monumental problem.
Picture someone in a deep ditch of slippery mud (of which porn is). Do you throw them the Lifeline of Jesus and pull them up or do you go down into the deep slippery mud with them, put them on your shoulders and try to climb out? That is impossible because the weight of porn is too heavy and one must be on firm soil to be able to help someone out of a mud hole.
Even creation proves that this method of "delivering people OUT of their sin" is wrong. The deliverance of one's soul is what the Lord is after.
So you two would have them take the condoms off?
condoms or no condoms.
either way the 'act on film' is likely fornication, adultery, homosexuality or all of the above. Which aids in leading the 'viewers' or the 'customers' moral compass directly on that 'highway to hell'.
I don't think putting a condom on changes anything except for perhaps protection for the 'actors' that either 1. aren't informed enough to protect themselves or 2. aren't allowed by the 'producer/purveyor of porn' to protect themselves.
Our Govt. is a fallacy just like porn. It's supposedly based on Judeo-Christian beliefs, however as we're all aware tolerates porn, prostitution and 'gay marriage' doesn't sound like anything from the bible to me. Our govt. makes worthless laws all the time, heroin is illegal, I personally know 4 addicts. Making a law doesn't do much now does it?
We differ politically, and that colors my view on this.
"The less government the better" sounds good on paper, and when you're beating your chest behind a podium, but what it amounts to socially is:
"If we leave everyone to their own devices, good will win in the end."
That's fundamentally opposed to Christian teaching.
It's also just not true. Everyone should be guaranteed safe working conditions and many times, employers won't provide those unless they have to. Especially when they're in such an evil business to begin with.
I don't know about the whole condom issue, I don't think it is a good way to address the whole porn issue. But there has to be something done with the way the whole sex industry is deceptive, manipulative, and downright evil, the reason why sex trafficking occurs at all. There should be laws enforced when the pornographers and pimps and all behind the scenes lie and trap the women who get into it, compelling them by intimidation to do scenes that are different than what they were initially told. Everything should be required to be spelled out, written down, clearly, explicitly explained what they expect in the scene. Pornographers should not be able/allowed to change the scenes last minute, trying to manipulate and force the women into scenes with 20 guys, when she thought she was just doing 1 guy, etc.
Everything about the environment of the sex industry seems to be about threats and manipulation and deception and control and violence. That is what needs to be addressed more than the issue of condoms to me. Enforcing laws on coercion, rape/sexual assault, assault and battery, etc.
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are Mine!...I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;...You are precious and honored in my eyes, and I love you...do not be afraid, for I am with you." (Is.43:4-5)
Hi, Johnny;
Haven't seen you in a while. How have you been?
The whole condom issue has less to do with free speech, and more to do with enforcing laws which are already in place, regarding OSHA and workplace safety. If the porn industry is going to tout itself as a legitimate business enterprise, then it needs to be subject to the same rules and regulations that any other workplace is subject to, that being, the use of condoms to ensure workplace safety.
I'm with you -- I despise pornography and, as a Christian, would like nothing more than to see it come down. That being said, the whole condom issue is not only to protect those in porn, but also to hold the industry to the same standards as any other workplace. Th fact that the porn industry is so opposed to such regulations shows that it is an inherently corrupt industry...if it weren't, then they would be happy to comply.
If you really think about it, the porn industry is getting off easy. Most other hazardous workplaces would require safety briefings and the risks posted in a conspicuous place. The use of condoms in porn is not an infringement on free speech.
Beloved Branch
Moderator/Admin
Pink Cross Forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps. 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly, for it is He who shall tread down our enemies
I've been doing well. It's the busy season for my job, so I've been working crazy hours. I'm getting ready to head out in fact.
I agree with you in principle that wearing condoms would make the entire industry "safer" according to OSHA standards, but I think it's a slippery slope. Again, let me reiterate that I despise porn. I think it's evil, and I pray that one day the entire industry collapsed, but based on how our government is setup, I don't think it's the governments place to regulate that. As I said before, it's a slippery slope. Pretty soon they're going to ban anal because it's riskier than vaginal sex, and then bondage and group sex, etc. Though all of these are sinful and should be done away with, I don't think it's the government's place to intervene.
Remember when we went to war in Iraq and we saw all of those liberal protestors marching in Washington camparing George W Bush to Hitler? Well, I wholeheartedly disagreed with them. Yet, I believe that they have every right to peacefully express themselves. I don't want anyone to think I'm a porn apologist or advocate.
As it relates to how the industry "forces" women to do certain things, I'm kind of on the fence. Granted, the ladies on this forum who were actually porn stars have a much better perspective than I do because they were there and experienced it firsthand. I do, however, think that comparing porn to slavery is a bit extreme. Everyone has a free will, and your life is the sum total of the choices you've made. Now, if you're expecting to do a scene with one guy and 10 guys show up, and you feel like if you refuse you'll be blacklisted, then so be it. I'm sure there are some cases where people are physically forced against their will, but I can't imagine that it's a regular occurance. And, when things like that happen, they should be reported and charged with rape.
Again, it's about choice. I know there is sex trafficking in this country, but I'm not sure how much of that coincides with porn. I'm might be naive, that's definitely a posibility, but I can't wrap my brain around someone having no choice in the matter. I guess it's because I'm strong-willed and I'm not going to let anyone force me to do something I don't want to do, regardless of the consequences.
Porn is immoral, godless and the road to hell even if one puts on a condom. Wearing condoms shouldn't be the issue. Porn is still not okay even if a condom is enforced.
Trying to enforce condoms is like putting a bandaid on a gaping wound. The reason for the wound is where Christians should put their energy.
Jesus would never tell porn actors to "go put on a condom and be safe." He would tell them, "Stop blaspheming Me by going against My design" just like He is NOW. God won't overlook the sin just because one uses a condom............
No one's excusing pornography, or the sin of it. No one's doubting its gravity or evil.
But you can't deny that what Shelley and The Pink Cross just did will save lives.
If her intentions stopped there, she and the other workers at the foundation wouldn't be working so hard to bring people out of the industry altogether.
That line of thinking doesn't actually produce results. Instead of putting foot to pavement and working to help these people, you end up sitting there with your arms folded and your face frowning in disapproval while the other people do all the good.
In the end, you've done nothing.